I recently wrote about my experience buying an iPhone from Rogers. To summarize: when I called, I had only planned on trying to get the $35 activation fee waived. I was fairly confident I’d be able to accomplish this since I’d read online that it was fairly common for new clients to get this. To be honest I didn’t really care about the $35, but I would have felt like I didn’t negotiate hard enough if I didn’t try to get something. I’ve always been a poor negotiator so I wanted to try to improve on that skill.
When I called, the guy I talked to didn’t even let me try to negotiate – he just started giving me stuff; activation fee waived, first month free, upgrade data plan from 500mb to 1 gig. Of course I agreed thinking that I had done quite well. In a similar vein to my Swiss Chalet story, I thought that giving the first month free was a bit dumb, but I wasn’t complaining.
Unfortunately, it turns out that while I thought I had been talking to the ol’ Gil of Rogers, in fact I had actually been talking to the Lloyd Braun* of Rogers.
*In one Seinfeld episode, Lloyd Braun worked for a short time for George’s father, Frank Costanza, allegedly selling computers (although the phone line he was “using” to make sales wasn’t even connected). He was the superstar salesman that George couldn’t be.
Things were fine the first month – no charge on the visa and everything was great until I got charged $126 in the second month. I called up to see what the deal was and the girl I talked to said that it was for the monthly charges and the activation fee. I told her about what I had been promised and she said that my account had none of those things noted. She couldn’t do anything for me – couldn’t waive the activation fee and would only upgrade the data plan if I paid $5 per month. I told her that I was pretty annoyed that I had been promised all these things and none of them happened. She documented my claim and promised to escalate to a manager who would get back to me within 4-24 hours.
Still waiting for that call.
Young and Thrifty (an excellent new blog) recently wrote about her experiences with “negotiating” with Rogers. Her take on it was a lot more upbeat than mine, but it seems that the same modus operandi was used in her case – a deal was reached (with Lloyd Braun*), but later on it turns out that there were “no notes” with any details about the deal.
Maybe someone should tell the Rogers reps that the “notes” screen is actually the equivalent of the Springfield power plant pneumatic tube system.
Homer drags Marge away from her paperwork for lunch. He takes her
form, puts it into a canister, and sends it through the pneumatic
tube system.Marge: But where does it go?
Homer: Don’t worry Marge, the tube will know what to do.
The canister takes a wild ride through the tube
system, eventually being deposited… outside, where a nearby beaver
collects it and adds it to a dam built entirely of message canisters.
I hadn’t really thought about it before, but when someone promises you something on the phone then you really have no way of making it happen. Now that I’m an existing customer, Rogers can treat me like shit like all their other customers so I can’t get anything done until my 3 year contract is up
FU Rogers! You won’t be getting my phone business next time around.
I did learn one thing from the call – apparently I had been given the upgraded data plan for a couple of months free. I didn’t even know that. Oh well – I think that time frame is almost over so I better get going with some downloads. After 2 months, I have yet to download an app.
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This is lame, especially when all these companies record conversations “for your protection”.
Two ways to fight this sort of thing would be: 1) Take notes right after the conversation. If you can tell them that you detailed your discussion, tell them the date, the service rep, and precisely each point that was agreed to, you might get further than saying “hey, that’s not how I understood the deal!”
2) Record the conversation. You can buy hardware that lets you record a phone call (or make calls with Skype or some along those lines and usually there are multiple ways to record the call). Not sure about the law – you may need to inform the person right away that you’re recording the call (you could tell them it’s for their protection
).
Wow, what a scam. Very unfortunate. I know of some people being offered this and that on iPhone plans – presumably because there is now competition.
Maybe that has been Roger’s response to Bell and Telus selling the iPhone. Cheat and lie to customers.
The problem is, where are you gonna go? I’ve had Bell reps and managers deny deny deny that “online operator chats” took place even when I’ve saved screenshots, among other things. They’re all liars! If and when our employers stop paying, I’m thinking of changing from cellphone to smoke signals or messenger pigeons or something.
I love dealing with rogers cell phone people. It’s a little like a game – if you find that the CSR you’re dealing with isn’t being cooperative, or isn’t able to “find those notes”, simply hang up and try another one. I’m definitely in the minority though, I understand that most people despise talking to phone support.
That being said, be sure to get all the relevant call information from the CSR for every call. they’ll have call records, the CSR’s name, etc. Ask them point blank if the next CSR is going to be able to find their notes and if there’s any info you need to know to help out the next one. Definitely make them repeat a summary of the call from their notes before you hang up.
I don’t understand the CSR structure at Rogers – I’ve had CSR’s tell me they can’t even give me a 10% discount on a package as it’s simply not allowed, and I’ve had CSR’s that happily changed my contract end date based solely on my word that it was incorrect (and it was).
For the record – I did write down all the details and asked *Lloyd* to give the info back to me at the end of the call.
Guinness – I’m confident that I’ll have completely forgotten all about this in 3 years and will happily buy a new phone with Rogers.
The annoying thing about this whole fiasco is that they had me at “iPhone”. All they had to do was politely turn down my pathetic attempt to negotiate the activation fee and everyone would have been happy.
I have one rule, never sign a contract. And if you ever have to sign, sign only within 1 year. In the fast changing world, new technology and ideas change every 3 months.
I rather pay the phone and get the low cost deals. You can buy phone in the states 50% lower than what they sell here in Canada.
My phone, cell phone, cable, Internet are different company with no contracts. Every one of them are 30% to 50% lower than what the average people pay. I have high speed internet with no cap and only pay $26 per month. Combine that with FreePhoneLine.ca and MagicJack and I got unlimited calls through out North America.
I had the same experience with Bell when working a deal for our phone, tv, and internet. The price that was agreed to was not the price I was charged and I fought them for around 6 months…6 months where my charges changes every single month. It stabilized for a year and now the charges are changing again…
If you record the convo and then they try and screw you, can you sue them in small claims court?
Jess, you make reference to great deals you have struck…who is your internet provider?
I suppose the lesson here is to not only have the rep repeat what has been offered, but ask to talk to a Manager to commend the great work they did for you (an also confirm you are getting what was promised
)
@Matt,
TeckSavvy.com and eSuite.ca. At this point, I’m using eSuite.ca.
If anyone needs some deals with Tollfree, MagicJack, Domain, and hosting, just give me a shout. =)
@Matt,
Oops, the correct spelling is http://www.teksavvy.com
Hello Mike,
I’m MJ from Rogers online help team.
I saw your post and I believe I can help.
Can you please send me an e-mail with your full name, a phone number along with the best time to reach you.
As soon as I’ve received it, I’ll look into this for you.
Hope to hear back from you soon…
Have a good day!
MJ
@Rogers_MJ
@ Jess: I have an iPhone and from what I can gather, you still have to sign a 3-year plan, regardless of whether you pay for the phone outright. It may sound corny, but the iPhone is a great machine and the apps are proving to create an industry of its own and is becoming something of a phenomenon; its not going away anytime fast. I also find ways to reduce my utility bills as you mention, but sometimes ya just gotta have an iPhone or an iPhone Touch :0)
@Mike. I previously commented on youngandthrifty’s post on her related thread, and there seems to be a recurring theme that you are not the only one. On the positive side, looks like MJ wants a chat!
Best of luck
P.S When things get ironed out, get downloading on those apps – they’re freakin’ awesome! (I did a thread on some good apps, check out my archives if you like).
The Rat
I am a little old fashioned. I like going to the stores and ordering it so that if they give me free stuff, it is on the order in writing. I think call centres, both for receiving calls and ordering things, is a huge landmine for the customer.
I am interested to see a follow up post on your dealings with MJ. It is Dilbert-esque that a customer with reach has to resort to profanities to actually get customer service. It is like putting a lock on the barn door after the horses have left.
Sheesh, Mike. I can’t believe you have no recourse here. Doesn’t the company you are dealing with record all of *their* phone calls? I find it hard to believe they don’t. If they do, ask to get a transcript.
This is an outrage! I’m really pissed off and I’m not even the one who got scammed here!
From what I can tell, it sounds like you entered into some sort of verbal contract? Is that true? Is that really allowed in Canada? Those are virtually worthless and hard to enforce here in the States.
I would fight this tooth and nail. Don’t roll over and give in! Stand up for yourself!
Does Canada have something equivalent to our small-claims courts here in the US?
Oh, yeah – and one last thing… I’m with Mike: FU, Rogers!
What a travesty.
Len
Len Penzo dot Com
Thanks for the link Four Pillars! Oh my goodness. I’m really mad at Rogers for you! I can’t believe they did that to you. That’s terrible customer service.
It’s almost like they lured you with their false bait and now you’re trapped in a cage with your hands tied (ball-and-chained to a three year contract).
I was really appalled that Rogers did that to me, that they told me outright that they would include Rogers to Rogers and when I called back, they said it wasn’t noted. I was also annoyed that the guy I talked to didn’t tell me the specifics (that he’ll take out the SAF and put in the lower $2.50 fee) and I had to ask for it myself.
Does Rogers train their CSR’s to cheat and lie to you? Is that their strategy?… because it sucks! I find that Telus is much more honest- when they say they’ll note it, they will.
It’s almost like you need to record the conversation yourself (which is pretty sad, might I add that we in society need to do this now!)
I know that Rogers has social media people that might help. @RogersMary is her twitter name, and I see that @Rogers_MJ seems to want to help you too.
Anyways, good luck and hope Rogers helps you out somehow!
MJ – Too late buddy, I,ve already wasted enough time trying to fix this.
Len & Matt – Small claims court is a good idea if I had a recording of the conversation which I don’t.
Young – The reality is that I was going to buy the phone without any incentives so I didn’t get trapped. I just find it hard to believe that they would just lie about everything.
As for recordings – yes, I’m sure they have one but I doubt they will share…
Mike: Why not take MJ up on his offer if he’s willing to fix it? Courts will sometimes accept documentation (like you made after your call) as evidence. I wouldn’t say your lack of a recording means you can’t go the small claims route.
Mr. Cheap – I don’t really want to spend the time. I doubt MJ will do much of substance and I definitely don’t have the time for small claims court.
The purpose of the this post was really to warn people that agreements over the phone are worthless (especially with Rogers).
Actually I had a productive time talking to Rogers about getting my monthly expenses with them reduced. I found the key to it was talk to someone in the Client Retention Department. Apparently Sales representatives can’t give discounts after the fact. My efforts for the 1/2 hour or so resulted in about a 20% monthly decrease from what it was. To get the Client Retention Department, I called the regular line and said I had a call interrupted with someone in that department and can they transfer me again. Good luck in the future
I hate Rogers. Similar reasons. Currently on Telus. Any better? Only marginally. We need more cell phone competition!!!!!
I’ve found that not being in a rush and being ambivalent about the offer pays dividends
I called to get a quote to switch my bell internet and phone to rogers where I already had TV. They gave me a quote which was really pretty decent, so I said I’d think about it. they called back a few times in the next week and I said I was still thinking about it. Almost a month later, I get a message on the phone saying my appointment is in a couple of days.
I couldn’t afford not to switch.
Turns out they book an appointment to “hold the quote”. This annoyed me since it wasn’t mentioned, so I called to cancel it. My attempt to cancel it got me connected to the retention department (or somewhere anyway) where they *really* discounted the offer even more.. so much more that my annoyance vanished and I am now switching
We’ll see what the bill shows, but all we ever talked about was the final after-all-taxes/expenses everything number, and it was clearly attached since it was there every time we talked.
Strange. I’ve actually found Rogers to be one of the easier companies to negotiate with.
I would agree that they do make a lot of “mistakes” in their favour, but when I call and complain, I’ve always gotten it corrected. When dealing with phone reps, I find the secret is to always be polite, but persistent. They deal with people all the time, and it’s not like the person behind the phone is someone personally trying to screw you over. So be nice to them and you’ll have an easier chance getting what you want. Keep driving your point across and assert that you are correct and why (but be polite about it), and if they can’t help you ask to speak with their manager.
Anyway, if you want to really get nasty about it. You should call to cancel your plan completely. When they ask you why, you tell them that the bill you’re getting is NOT what you signed up for. I’m not a lawyer so don’t take this as legal advice, but I believe that nullifies the contract. So then they’ll either correct the bill or cancel it. The only downside is that you’ll probably have to spend a lot of time to do all of this, and it seems like you’re already pretty frustrated.
Hope this helps.
I am a Fido customer for over 13 years and I really like their system. I brought my iphone in Sept. and I got great deals with them. What I really like is the Fido dollars. In a three year period I have enough fido dollars to buy a new phone for almost free.
I have an absolute hatred of Rogers myself.
It all started before the dawn of time, almost 10 years ago now. A rogers rep came to my door to sign me up for cable. Well I was not home but my stepson sure was and he graciously signed us up. It wasn’t until the bill came in a month later that I saw it was in my name for about $100.
So I called them and said ” I didn’t order this and I’m not paying for it either” They said we’ll send you to collections and that’s what they did.
After several years I wanted to switch to VOIP phone. Well Bell claimed that they were unable to do a dry loop connection in my area. They kept me waiting for two months while they tried to fix the problem. So then I was more ticked at them than at Rogers.
So I decided to switch over my internet to Rogers. They said you have to pay for your old bill and buy a modem. So I did $300 in total. I was really ticked at Bell.
So a few years later I order my credit report and the Rogers bill is still on there. So I try to straighten it out to no avail. Over and over. Every once in while I go through a period of self loathing and try again. Not only that I am way past the 6 year limit on the original bill but they have sold the debt I don’t owe, to a new collection agency thereby extending the time period to have something on your credit report.
So I really hate Rogers and I hate them more now that my internet is costing me $50 extra per month because my husband downloads too much crap.
So Rogers guy, I don’t owe you a cent. I paid you take your crap off my credit report.
Rogers is garbage, but some are lucky and do manage to get away with not being bent over by Rogers.
When I first for my house I went and got the entire rogers bundle, and with the help of a naive roommate got all singed up with deals on a 3 year almost everything contract.
And to think I’m legally bound to bend over for Rogers, as heartless a company as it gets. One more year ! just one more !!
oh just to add to the fun.
Rogers signed me up with a 2 year contract. When I lost my phone and couldn’t afford a new one, I cancelled by plan and they sent me a bill for 222$. As a highschool student I did what I thought was right… I ripped it up and threw it in the garbage… A while later I received a letter saying Rogers was sending it to collections …. Here’s the fun part … I was only 16 when they signed me up for a cellphone, luckily, illegal, to protect naive minors from getting shafted by the heartless faceless rogers.
I did a credit check a few years ago, and my 222$ owed to rogers disappeared in thin air… Take that @ssholes !